Two guitars on 'Johnny B. Goode'?

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Wednesday, June 4. 2008

Reader Rick Bergemann asked to post this question for discussion. And sure it is a good(e) question:

After recently listening to "Johnny B. Goode" takes 2/3 I highly suspect that someone is playing rhythm guitar underneath Chuck's lead guitar. On take 2 Chuck abruptly stops his opening riff and shouts out for them to stop the take. The one instrument that continues on is a guitar, and it has a sound clearly distinct from Chuck's. Chuck actually has to yell several times in order to get the guitar to stop. When the guitar finally stops Chuck tells Leake to stay away from playing "Roll Over Beethoven" on the piano. In response to this the studio engineer asks Chuck if he means the piano or the guitar, at which point Chuck reiterates that he is talking about the piano. Why would the engineer ask Chuck if he was talking about the guitar if Chuck was the only guitar player? All signs point towards a second guitarist. I then listened with a renewed focus to JBG take 3 and the released version, and I thought that at some points I could make out a rhythm guitar that was clearly distinct from Chuck's.

The liner notes on the new 4CD set with all 1950's recordings do not tell about a second guitarist. Fred Rothwell's book has a second guitar as being overdubbed but on the final master only.
Any comments, anyone?

Posted by Dietmar Rudolph in LDI Sessionography - Q&A at 11:21 | Comments (10) | Add Comment | Contact Webmaster

Comments

This is not Chuck Berry speaking but the producer, presumably Len Chess. Therefore it is Chuck who carries on playing when the take is called to a halt. The master of JBG has Chuck's guitar overdubbed as was the standard practice with his recordings.

#1 fred Rothwell on 2008-06-04 16:30

Fred, I can't begin to suggest that I come even close to knowing as much about Chuck as you, but I think you are dead wrong here. The voice calling for the stoppage is clearly Chuck's. In fact it sounds like he is intoxicated, but it is clearly his voice. The response with the gruff voice is the from the mouth of the producer. You've got it totally backwards. I think you should listen again, because I think you're going by memory and you're wrong. While you're at it, please read my earlier remarks regarding "La Juanda". I make a very interesting point regarding the unexplained mistranslations. These two recordings definitely need further research. I'd do it, if I knew where to begin. Thanks.

#2 Rick Bergemann on 2008-07-14 22:13

Rick, I've listened to the track again and again and .....again and I'm afraid I stand by my previous contention that it is the producer / engineer speaking not Chuck. Chuck's voice is lighter, in fact I hear him in a split second comment in the background saying 'oh' just before the music starts again. Chuck, by the way is tea total so there is no way he was intoxicated. Maybe Dietmar or Morten could comment?

I'll have another look at La Juanda.

#3 fred Rothwell on 2008-07-16 11:26

Thanks, Fred. I haven't heard Chuck speak as much as you, but the voice saying to stay away from "Roll Over Beethoven" I assume is Chuck, speaking in a very slow and affected manner as I've heard him before. And the overall dynamics of the exchange seem to point to that same voice being the one who wants to stop the take. BUT the main point here is "why are we hearing two guitars?" Was the overdub done beforehand and played back during the recording? There are two distinct guitar sounds, and there has to be a reason for this. Thanks again.

#4 Rick Bergemann on 2008-07-21 18:08

Rick,
I hear just one guitar on take 2/3 of Johnny B Goode. The recording follows the tried and tested methodology adopted by Chuck and Chess, namely, first lay down a base track with strong guitar introduction and then a powerful guitar rhythm and vocal with one or two guitar fills. Second, overdub the staccato guitar lines which seem to float on the rhythmic bed and you have a classic. This is what happens on Johnny B Goode, the early take with the base guitar, the finished article with the sharp overdubbed guitar.

Fred

#5 fred Rothwell on 2008-07-21 19:35

Fred,

I appreciate your patience. I guess some of this is just over my head. To me I hear the lead guitar stop and the rhythm guitar continue. And I'm still uncertain why Chess would ask Chuck whether he wants someone to stay away from "Roll Over Beethoven" on the piano or the GUITAR, unless there's another guitarist. But I thank you for your time and for putting up with me hounding you about this.

And I apologize for my ire at your first response. I was under the impression that the individual stopping the take was the same individual who was saying to stay away from "Beeethoven", and I knew the latter to be Chuck's voice. So when you said that Len Chess stopped the take, I automatically thought you were saying that Len Chess was also the one saying to stay away from "Beethoven".

I appreciate your help,

Rick

Rick

#6 Rick Bergemann on 2008-07-23 21:47

Just trying to be clear here. On "B Goode" Chuck plays the intro by himself but when the band kicks in he switches to rhythm. The subsequent soloing is an overdub (by Chuck). This is a technique he did often. So the most famous guitar solo introduction in rock history is actually done in TWO steps!

#7 Gene Casey (Homepage) on 2008-09-05 16:30

Takes 2 and 3 on the new compilation appear to refute that. Someone else seems to carry on playing the rhythm guitar after Chuck stops the intro and the take is halted. Chuck then tells Leake to stay away from playing "Roll Over Beethoven" on the piano, and Len Chess asks Chuck if he means piano or guitar. Why would Chess ask such a question unless there was a second guitarist? So although I appreciate that Fred Rothwell is the absolute authority on CB, I for one still believe there is more to this recording than is known.

#8 Rick Bergemann on 2008-09-07 17:00

I know this is an old thread

but I just had to say I have no clue why Rick is so adamant that the voice telling the musicians to "stay away from playing Roll Over Beethoven" is Chuck! That is so clearly NOT Chuck's voice!
And I don't hear a second guitar any more than Fred Rothwell does.

#8.1 soulman on 2010-10-30 03:17

For some more astonishing details about Johnny B. Goode, read this blog's article on the various takes of this recording published on July 26th, 2011.

#9 Dietmar Rudolph (Homepage) on 2011-07-31 10:28

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